Piccolo Pro, NO POWER!!!! *pics*

[nsheryka]

No, it is a 4 channel radio (airplane radio) and the piccolo pro is designed to work with a 4 channel radio fine.

What it does is it just mixes collective with throttle linearly. Obviously i cannot do things like inverted flight that require independent control of collective and throttle, however many people fly with a 4 channel.

I have about 5 years + experience with R/C planes, and have just gotten in to cars and heli's. This is my first helicopter, and i figured i would learn to hover and do basic maneuvering with the 4 channel, then upgrade to a heli radio when it was worth it in comparison to my skill level.

On a side note, thanks for the advice everyone, i did get it in the air for a bit today ( i still have a lot to learn before i can hover without fail, but i am getting there)

There were 2 problems why i wasn?t getting enough power to get off the ground which i figured out after reading your replies and tinkering for a while. I hope this helps someone with a similar problem:

1 - the "upgrade" 310 motor = piece of low torque crap. Why Ikarus and places like Helihobby.com recommend "upgrading" to this motor blows my mind, as clearly has less power than the stock 410. I fell stupid for letting this confuse me for so long, but every website i went to claimed that this was the "higher performance upgrade motor for the piccolo pro" - don?t waste your money. The first time i revved the blades up (even at half throttle) i could tell clear as day it had a lot more power than the 310

2 - the stock pinion gear had 8 teeth, this was not enough mustard. I upgraded to the 10 pin gear (may try the 12 at some point) in combination with my 100t main gear and this was more than enough power (in combination with the 410) to lift my piccolo right up. Even with my massive, 2000 mAh brick of a battery!!!!!!! (by the way, i did some homework and it is a Li Poly battery. Ikarus sells it with charger for less than 200, should give even you brushless flyers a 20, maybe 25 min+ fly!!)




so i hope that helps the next noobie guy like me with the same problem.

My gripe with Ikarus is that the damn product they sell as a kit seems in no way possible to work without dumping many more dollars into aftermarket parts, most of which aren?t even made by them?? does anyone in the world have a 100% stock, working piccolo pro?? i believe within a month i may get a new frame, and then my piccolo will be almost completely rebuilt with products not made by Ikarus!!!! (except the motor, proboard and receiver, tail motor and blades!!!)



one final note, don?t ever buy the aftermarket landing gear that www.helihobby.com sells:

http://www.helihobby.com/html/retrofit_lg.html

they are cheep, flimsy, and barely fit the piccolo pro even with heavy modification!!!

[Daz(DJLFlapper)]

Oh!! right !!

So you only need a four channel radio to fly a collective pitch heli. I guess I have been doing things wrong myself for some years then.

Listen, Throttle and collective are mixed by the radio that is used to fly collective pitch helicopters. A 4 channel plane radio is not cappable of doing it. if they were then you would have no need for the heli radio. Your heli is capable of flying upside down only with a heli radio that gives you the ability to make throttle and pitch curve adjustments. Not all heli radio's do this.

It is the radio that tells the heli what collective to give the heli in response to the throttle used. It allso, (when you are not useing a heading hold gyro) tells the pico board how much revo mix to apply to the tail. this counters the drift associated with throttle changes.

Throttle and pitch can work independantly but radios are settup so that they work together on the throttle lever. As you push the throttle lever forward so you should see the pitch changing through the range. 0 throttle= say -4 pitch and full throttle=+10 pitch with midstick giving you +5 degrees. A plane radio just wont give you this ability. In short your Pitch does not move and you just get a spinning rotor with no lift unless you set the pitch to 5 degrees then with the engine speed you will eventualy get some lift. but very poor control.

If I am wrong about the opperation of electric collective Pitch heli's then please guys jump in and tell me. Does the picollo pro Have a different set of rules?

I know I have never come accross anyone telling me that you can fly any collective pitch Heli's with a 4 channel plane radio before.

I dont think I'll bother with this one any more.


Regards
Daz

[colin]

Hey Daz, actually, you can fly with a 4 channel radio. You will need a Y-connector to have channel 3 - throttle, drive 2 servos.

The so called pitch/throttle curve would then be linear. It would be up to the pilot to make sure that the pitch degs is mechanically set correctly such that 0 throttle will give you say 0 deg pitch, and 100% throttle will give say 10 deg pitch.

So if both servos are sharing one channel, 50% throttle should put the pitch at about 5 deg ... provided the mechanical linkages are setup linearly also.

I did the above with my first shuttle, and very quickly learnt that you can't do anything else except hover.

[Daz(DJLFlapper)]

Thanks for that Colin mate.

I was aware of this option but the fact that our chaps pictures show his negative pitch on the blades to be so extreem then even if this were the case surely the linear mix would not work. buy the time he got to full throttle if it did lift it would have been a bin job.

What I am trying to say is with such a heli if you want it to opperate properly then you need a heli radio. A plane radio will not work to a point that you can fly around.

Why have a heli like that and not get the best from it? It dont make sence.
Look if anyone else should come accross this look at it as a bad example. Get yourself a heli radio and then you'll get more from your heli.

Regards
Darren

[colin]

Oh ya, you're right... That looks like -10 deg.

At 50% throttle, he'll get 0 deg if he's sharing throttle channel.

I'll go with Daz... get a Heli radio .. a good one, and you can enjoy the sport instead of struggling with all these problems.

[nsheryka]

Daz, what you said 2 posts ago contradicts what you said in your last.

I am fully aware how radio systems work, and understand that the function of the heli will be limited with four channels. As i stated in my post, i plan on learning hover and do some basic maneuvering on my radio before upgrading to a heli radio.

You are correct in that my pitch is way to low, but that picture was taken during an experiment of mine testing extreme settings to see if anything would happen.

As stated before, the problem with my heli was the motor and the gear ratio. I successfully flew her yesterday after these two items were changed.

The machine i have was designed to fly with a 4 or 5 channel radio as its on-board circuitry is fully capable of mixing (linearly, as stated before) throttle and collective. It also has three gyros which communicate with it and do a good job of mixing stick input and response to the tail rotor, and keeps its movements on track and accurate regardless of rotor RMP/torque.

Please to not refer to my case as a "bad example" for other people to follow, as it had nothing to do with radio gear until you brought it up.

I am new to this forum; however i am not new to the world of R/C. I wish you much success with your gear, but would appreciate you not jumping down my throat so quickly. The forum would be much better off if a higher level of respect was given to all members, novices - pros.

Thank you

[Daz(DJLFlapper)]

Ok, Look, Sorry if you have taken the information that has been given as "Jumping down your throat".
You are obviously an expert in the feild of heli's and nobody can offer advice about your settup without offending you.
As for contradicting myself. Hovering a heli is not flying a heli. Hovering is a practice exorsize done so that you can learn to land and lift off ready for flight.

An experiment of yours testing extreem settings to see if anything would happen. Yes it wouldn't fly but being the expert you are you of course knew that and new how to correct it.

Yes you stated that its on board circuitry is capable of linear mixing. But the only time as myself and collin have stated this can be acheived with elecric helis is when you use a Y lead and split the throttle link to opperate a pitch servo at the same time. But of course being the expert you are you already kknow about this.

3 GYROS ok now I know this is a winde up. But I will go with it. Three gyros I can not for the life of me think what you need three for but as your the expert then crack on.

As for the dont refer to this as a bad example to others. Well I am and I am even more sure that it is now.

Listen people, If you buy a collective pitch heli and you can afford to waste money on it. Be it electric, Nitro or gas, Please get a radio designed for Heli's. This way any problems you may encounter can be advised apon and help will be swift. Though because you have the right Kit to start with you should find that you dont have many problems.

I very rarely give out bad advice and would concider evey person as an equal treating them with respect from the off. However when someone tells me something that I have written is incorrect. If this can be proven then I would be the first to appologise.

I will leave this subject allone now. I will offer no more Help to this person as he is so much of an expert that I would not want to look silly.
You can Keep your 4 channel plane radio and your three gyro opperated heli with a built in linear mixing cappability. Good luck to you.

To others that are reading this pile of tripe.
THIS IS A BAD CASE EXAMPLE.

Please do yourselves justice and get yourselves a good heli radio. Most really good ones can opperate planes, Heli's and gliders.
At the start they will make your experience a good one. You will get a lot more from youre Heli from the start. Without the headache of modifying to make a heli hover with limited ability for control at best.

Regards to all.
Darren

[nsheryka]

Daz,

My suggestion is to lose the condescending attitude. Not once in my posts did I personally attack you, nor was I rude. I don?t think you will get too many new paying members to your forum if you treat everyone like this with their first post.

I never clamed to be an expert, but I am very familiar with radio systems, and how helicopter radios mix multiple channels with one control input.

I have had a y-adapter since the first day I owned the helicopter.

My question never had anything to do with radio gear, so the reason you continuously throw this in my face escapes me.

MY QUESTION HAD TO DO WITH MOTORS AND GEAR RATIOS


It is quite clear you fly other types of helicopters, so you most likely know nothing about the appropriate setup for this model.

3 gyros = 3 axes of rotation in this space time continuum

This helps novice pilots like me keep the thing under control as they try to teach themselves how to hover!

You claim to be the first to admit you were wrong, however when I offered you an explanation of how it worked the first time you merely post and give me attitude.

Good luck with your heli, but let?s just stop wasting both of our time with this pointless bickering. I merely joined this forum in the hopes of sharing experiences and information with people who share the same love with the hobby of remote control as I do. If you don?t want fresh noobies like me infiltrating your site, then just tell me and I will never post again, however I figured this site would not be like that.

I am looking forward to sharing stories and info with all the members of Helifever.com in the future.

Good luck with your machines!